If youre a religious figure, you can designate some portion of your income (up to a certain point, please consult with your tax advisor) as compensation for housing. A lot of nonsense is talked about peoples fear of public speaking. I spend 7-10 hours studying Gods word and I am not preparing a sermon. When I went to the CBE conference in Florida recently, we had communion and the person serving me communion said Julie Anne, this is the Body of Christ. Now, of course, it wasnt as special as Bills because this woman didnt know me except from the weekend, but I noticed how personal it felt. Hes doing well. Running a huge bureaucracy like the IMB is no fun, and a huge church can be a rush if you go for that kind of thing and have staff to take care of the administrative stuff. So why do we continue supporting this made up role? I called the church to make the funeral arrangements and notify the pastor. Never did. The pastor spends no time ministering to the congregation or outside it. In a TWW postEd Stetzer and the Four Fence Posts that Define His Ministry, Stetzerexplained what he didand didnot do as a bi-vocational pastor. As does C H Spurgeon, the author of the quote. I look forward to reading what she has to say about the sexual abuse coverup in the church her ex-husband, Joshua was senior pastor. How many weekly training hours do you suppose it takes to actually be able to win one of those? I mean its not that big of a deal until you look at a pattern in the entire movement. Many in the radical reformation rejected that idea as unbiblical. Because healthy community is missional. Both should be evident, though. Platt, the senior pastor of McLean Bible Church in Northern Virginia, is now caught in the middle of a scandal that is reminiscent of events that took place in 2019 at a Sorry for initiating a rabbit trail but to clarify a classical liberal is more like a libertarian but sees the need for just a tad more government. Call him a speaker, not a pastor. All the best! Ok, maybe Im missing something but hes offering to preach for free, the church is being very wise in theyre decision making, David Platt knows his family and what he needs to do to spend time with him. It is not a place for mature Christians to sit in the back and ask 1 man what can you do for me?. We could argue this stuff back and forth until the ice sheets start moving South again and it would accomplish nada, zilch, and zero. So why do we continue supporting this made up role? Wonder what draws the short stick? The blind are unable to discern and the lame are unable to walk by faith. It has been nothing but crickets since this major event happened. Now we have Didasko. Yes, a traveling speaker seems like a much better productive role for him but we are just the uneducated layman of the church body, what do we know? (I first learned of it fromSBC This Week.). Dee, I really like this post, as I used to work at St. Thomas, an Episcopal Church across the street from McLean Bible. I cannot see the pastor as all that in Bible. injury or illness that affects your vocal cords. Was Peter a pastor to these souls or just a talking head? As a Christian of many years, Christ feeds me in many ways, in many places. So a proclamation of Who the object of our faith is, gives focus to our faith, and direction to our worship (which includes pastoral care). Not a clue. How interesting would it be if someone at the UK conference asked Thabiti or one of the 9Marks reps why Mahaney was exempted from church discipline when others are subject to it? He wants that title. But we have some in depth sunday school classes. Shouldnt we all be spending time with Christ, studying? It is an honor to have your presence and your concerned comments here at The Wartburg Watch. MBC initially became a cooperating church in 2016 when it became the hub for the North American Mission Boards church-planting efforts in the Washington, D.C., area. I am thankful to a special friend who invited me to take acourse on Pastoral Leadership offered by a conservative seminary. Of course, we are to do stuff, but the text never says we are to do witnessing as if it is apart from who we are. Again, I have no earthly clue why anyone would think its a good idea to take a word, pastor which appears only once in the singular in the entire New Testament, and then only fourth in a list of five giftings useful for the church, a word that is not explicitly defined in the Bible in terms of role, and make up a meaning for it out of whole cloth, defined as he one head person to be the primary teacher and CEO of a fellowship, big or small, to whom all, if push comes to shove, must ultimately submit. Of course there are many in between, but I continue to be amazed how many people do not put much thought into what they do and say.. our immediate culture is makin this worse. Yours is a valuable reminder, too, of how many clergy embody anything BUT the gospel. @ AnonInNC: We are human beings not human doings. So I went and prayed, then listened to his latest sermon and once again I was reminded possibly by the Holy Spirit how anointed this man is. And in most of these churches, members arent allowed to do much ministry either, because they have paid staff for that who make 4-10x more than the average member of the congregation. But at some point, arent we supposed to grow up into some degree of self-reliance, as far as the scriptures are concerned? He wont sacrifice financially. I try to use gender inclusive language, but I dont bend over backwards. David Platt (pastor) David Joseph Platt is an American pastor. He is currently the Pastor-Teacher at McLean Bible Church, and he is also the author of the New York Times Best Seller Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream. Platt released a follow-up book, Radical Together: Unleashing the People of God for the Purpose Once the new pastor arrived, it quickly went Neo-Cal. Thank you. David respected Saul as Gods anointed, even though he had good cause against him. Dont get me wrongI believe the Bible clearly gives the church a fair amount of temporal authority and does enjoin us to provide for folks temporal needs, be they material or emotional or whatever. LOL at Dee telling Deb to check her text messages. Exodus 40 10-17 we see that God appointed Aaron as spokesman for Moses. Is it a worship service or a rock concert? But who else is going to feature that boring hallway that nobody ever uses? So when I see that Platt is not being paid a salary, I question that, unless hes already covered in this area by his IMB salary and perks. Podcast in Person reminds me of the scary movie. For what its worth, my spouse and I are part of a home fellowship. What about the way New Testament leaders and teachers apparently worked to provide their own physical sustenance, so they would not be burdensome on the believers, oh, say, tent-making, for example? ), you are neglecting the gathering together of the saints. @ Tree: We should do so, so the table is still valid, but so is the pulpit if governments/culture allows. As for the public gathering, God promises to be present where two or three are gathered. The building which was on the tax rolls is now removed causing a decrease in the tax base and higher taxes for others. He believed, and I also think, that is was part of its success. Im familiar with the loophole, it is another one of those things that violates my classical liberal sensibilities as does the property tax exclusion that no other non-profit enjoys. More amazing is members will do so. They must have gone in in laparoscopically. We all hold each others hands in the hospital. @ Lydia: Thanks for the man/human explanation. It is not my place to question Gods call on this mans life, but again, I have a lot of concerns about this. Have you seen what their next conference is going to be? I generally know what to expect, altho Ive had my share of surprisesmy motto is there is no such thing as a straightforward issue. About 3 minutes. I dont know if they have similar laws in Australia, the churches there appear to have the same penchant for the title. Say to the cities of America, Believe in Jesus Christ and be saved! Well, I think I can see what the problem is here. This is a predicate. For whatever reason they didnt feel comfortable mixing with the common folk. In my experience, this is a typical response of FIEC church leaders and it is a cowardly of saying I dont want to know! So sadly I doubt that any of them would care. One of the 16 books DeYoung has authored is titled Crazy Busy. DeYoung is eminently qualified to write on the subject. If push comes to shove, I think they would ditch Complementariansm in order to save Authoritarianism, which is what they really value. Week in the hospital with IV antibiotics and drains (after a few days on NG tube and Foley no fun), then recuperating at home for a month on a restricted diet. so, having a pastor think for me is very easy.. For what its worth, I preach somewhere around 10 Sundays a year doing pulpit supply around my area. Anyway, I love that, and I love Ed's voice! So disheartening. I recall attending a church where the congregation would share some testimony, praise, blessing, etc. Actually, liberal lefty functions only as temporary place holder for me. The early church did without them for centuries, and was pretty effective. I have been watching dexter quite a bit lately and noticed that the character Angel pronounces things oddly sometimes, is it just me? (Formerly pastored by Joshua Harris and C.J. Some people like to disparage any desire for a pastor to be more than a talking head as hand holding and I do not do that either. We believers are all priests, Jesus is our high priest, and we were not supposed to embrace this pagan shamanism nonsense to begin with. While he did pastor churches in his twenties, once he launched his Evangelism ministry he never again pastored a church, even though almost any church would have offered him any deal he wanted, because he knew he could not be an Evangelist and a Pastor without shortchanging the church he was supposed to be pastoring. Very true and this phenomenon applies to the congregation as well. http://www.metrolyrics.com/wake-me-up-inside-lyrics-evanescence.html. Hmm-methinks my upbringing has given me an entirely different take on what the preacher should be. I usually dread listening to missionaries speak, anticipating the guilt trip that they sometime put on other people for not being as extreme and missional and sacrificial as them. To my knowledge neither Platt nor Furman have apologized for the scam they took part in. He clearly could not know everyone by name as our capacity as humanssociologically speakingtaps out at around 150 (if you look at the literature). @ okrapod: One of many reasons I am not a fan of institutionalied/bureaucracy-ized Churchianity. I saw this with the vicar of an Anglican church I used to go to. for a paper. Is this the same Augustine who is considered one of the fathers of the faith? Does theology (study of God) take precedence in your schedule? The suffering of self-sacrifice in this tent of meeting will produce the godly character necessary for ministry unto the LORD, and then unto others. We were rather shocked about his attitude toward pastoring. It was all titles and nonsense. I see you met the pastor at my former church. But does mission swamp the Church? The church needs to be contemporary, right? Speaker?) Stalling for time to make the transition. Something is amiss. With Mac Brunson you see tweets about Lambert and Mohler and trivializing the impact of Irma on the community while whining about the minor ways it inconvenienced him personally. Flash forward about 20 years. When I attended a Sovereign Grace Church the pastors had their own small group! Find a pastor who will do your funeral and not punt it to the third tier pastoral staff. According to SBC This Weekhe is only going to teach (give sermons) and will not do anything else in the church. ADA Only You Jesus Next week, we will address some of the explanations by the other commentators. i called every single one. Even if he does prep his own sermons . These graduates then serve the Church. Im fine with paying staff, pastors, etc, but dont insist theres a New Testament mandate for the paid career program we see. But what exactly do these terms mean? Just because we are not catholic and they are no longer sacraments doesnt mean they cease to be important. I love this story! @ Sopwith: (Communion servers switch around, so not every time, but it has definitely happened from the pastor. Usually didnt pay or didnt pay much. I believe Jesus summed this up best when he followed up the first greatest commandment with the second, to love your neighbor as yourself. Thersites wrote: WebDavid Platt Occupation Hairdresser Born 25th December 1990 Birthplace Weatherfield Residence 8 Coronation Street Father Martin Platt Mother Gail Rodwell Sibling (s) Nick Tilsley (half-brother) Sarah Platt (half-sister) Charlotte Platt (half-sister) Spouse (s) Kylie Turner (2011) Shona Ramsey (2019) Children Lily Platt (2013) Max Turner (legal son) Our forefathers knew that the study of Gods Word and prayer was the foundation for ministry. One can improve the business by power of advertising and might of distribution. Only You, Jesus can show this blind man who looks!, Have Calvinism, Will Stealthy Creep, Perhaps?. I met him the first time his visited this spring and he has remembered me and called me by name ever since (something akin didnt do for the 12 years we have been there.) It is a megachurch inthe DC areawith 5 locationsand claims an attendance of 13,000 each weekend. But they brought back many well-researched case studies of people who were. He said Bill, this is Christs body, broken for you. I have NEVER had anyone do that in communion before. I dont view Christians (during the week) as scattered. Whenever I feel ashamed to be a Southern Baptist because of the reputation and antics of these snake oil salesmen, I have to remind myself that they are clearly NOT Southern Baptiststhey have only ridden on the coat tails of the SBC to seize fame and fortune. You cant have it both ways and these special privileges may prove to be a future rationalization for government meddling. have you guys even listened to his sermons?? I remember folks telling me to never attend the last Sunday morning service because he loves to ramble on waaaay over time since he doesnt have to worry about the next service. And on top of that, we do not get paid for taking care of my mother with dementia and her other health problems, my grandbaby with special and high time consuming needs, or trying to battle against the babys father who pretended to be a Christian and now has threatened to kill my daughter and take the baby to Fiji where his family lives and his father is a pastor of a church there. He was certainly a captain whom you could rely on to turn up and put in a shift when the team was under pressure. We are disgusted that its gone neo-Cal and SBC. Uniformity of the product and driving down of the raw cost of goods is next on the agenda. Amazing to me is that these same preachers will harangue the members to up their donations to meet budget shortfalls! @ Bridget: The sermon or the gathering might not be experienced as anything significant to us, but we dont know how others are responding. While checking that one for accuracy, I came across this one too: Id like to die like my old dad, peacefully in his sleep. hows your son doing, bridget? the name) was not even involved in the Cooperative program when he was appointed. Or mainly? You see, he gets to go to church with them and then get up and preach/teach. And the Global Replace String man With String person' approach gets pretty silly. Its no wonder men want it for themselves; its no wonder so many idealistic, but ambitious and easily-seduced young men are both dazzled by those who find fame and fortune doing it, and want it for themselves. https://fiec.org.uk/events/event/leaders-conference-2017. Why are we surprised at those results when were flat begging for them? @ Mandavilla: They say the importance of the sermon is a reason they cant have any interaction with the congregation. everyone who knows the Lord has a calling to the ministry, all of us are high priests, and every calling is of utmost importance. Reminds me of a famous one-liner by the late and much-loved English comedian Bob Monkhouse: When I said I was going to become a comedian, they all laughed. I think that people are more comfortable with Jesus loves me (a song) than they are with keep my commandments (a direct quote from the mouth of Jesus) and some folks find it easy to play the two off against each other in order to avoid whatever they want to avoid and take advantage of whatever they want to take advantage of. Sounds like he has taken Thom Rainers advice. A vague reference to Samuels School of the Prophets is a weak link, but possible. Both Mark Driscoll and Matt Chandler at one time were spokesmen for Docent a company you pay to research and write sermons for you. thats totally awesome. TWW has long been a safe place for folks of differing views and differing faiths. While many take much pride in their pastor title I would be embarrassed at the current level of absurdity. There is something missing here. We have been attending MBC for 4 years. Late coming to this, but I have some issues with property taxes in general and can see why that might be a needed exemption. Apparently this post is getting a lot of play out there. If we hope to reveal the worth of Gods love to others, what has it cost us? I was thrilled to learn when he left Brook Hills and I personally dont think he should be pastoring anywhere, frankly. Will David visit me in the hospital if I am ill? I dont believe there is invested (maybe you meant vested?) Please let me know so that I dont continue to trigger you or others. (I am not making fun of word studies, I would love love love to have access to a full bells and whistles version of Logos software.) I tried real hard to laugh about it. Could be. Exactly! What their job is, without exception, is pastoring a church for expats. For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a high standing (vs 13). Ministry to believers is creature-centric. Well just have to agree to disagree. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. If I had never joined a church till I had found one that was perfect, I should never have joined one at all; and the moment I did join it, if I had found one, I should have spoiled it, for it would not have been a perfect church after I had become a member of it. (The Marriott or Hilton, I cant recall which) Dave Furman, pastor at Redeemer Church of Dubai (the sponsor of the event) went along with the charade and was one of several who were filmed with their faces blackened to hide their identity as they were interviewed. We need to assemble, and we need each other to live out the one anothers. Christ gave Himself for the Church. and for fun. They also repeat the same series of sermons at the same time each year, and the series are the same ones that youll hear at other Arc churches. The pastor has stated he spends 15 20 hours a week preparing his sermonbut in reading the comments above about how pastors will say that but just copy & paste other people I just found a sermon by MacArthur on Psalm 19 and it sounded exactly like the sermon my pastor preached a few weeks ago on Psalm 19. He makes a concerted effort to know peoples names. Were connected. Its totally untenable but yet I have seen so many in high positions double dip or even have businesses on the side that enrich them even more. Different people; different needs. But brother or sister, these nine jobs are biblical, and that is why they are so valuable.. Lon Solomon rarely asked for money in my many years at McLean. Small fellowships are well and good, but you darn well better get your fanny in a seat to hear the pastor preach on a regular basis, or else youre doin it wrong. He will receive no salary. I never really made it past the Introduction in the book 9 Marks of a Healthy Church because he did not include prayer in the 9 Marks. Is Lons final act his final rock drop by event'(tm) to take MBC, its 25,000 people and the whole of the Washington D. C. area for a dark closeted stealthy ride into Calvinisms Dystopian fake gospel? We are called to be like the Bereans in Acts 17:11, so the more I followed up with Davids teaching I found that he plays fast and loose with Gods word. We dont know how intimately accquainted Peter and the other Apostles were with all the Jerusalem believers, but it sounds like their lifestyle would lend itself to knowing each other much better than todays mega church pastor. Take this opportunity to tell these supposed *pastors* what you think a pastor should be. (1) lyrics: Evanescence: The Evolution of Bring Me To Life: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EEHZ_-mE7Ao It is the body of Christ. Hmmmis there NO one in the UK and/or Ireland who can speak at the FIEC Leaders Conference that an American has to be imported? Sure, theyll get a real piece of work for a pastor now and again, but hes usually removed before the damage can escalate. Got a bit lively, but no legal or 501c3 problems. Tell me want to do/believe, and I will do it, I do not want to figure it my self to much work and, 2. He Didnt Love Being a Police Officer. So far they havent bothered us too much about the whole covenant signing thing, but Im concerned Whats going to happen when the new church covenant to replace the old (two churches are merging) comes in, and the push comes to get everyone to sign the new one? The scripture says that we are saved unto good works, For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ordained that we should walk in them.. Ephesians 2:10 KJV, So, why would it not be both. Heres the line he gave then when questioned about the issue: http://www.bpnews.net/43260/www.bpnews.net/43240/cooperation-central-to-platts-vision-at-imb. a person who herds, tends, and guards sheep. Ive just looked again at David Platts photograph at the top of this thread. However, imagine being the pastor of a mega church. His church, brookhills, (or whatever the name) was not even involved in the Cooperative program when he was appointed. Do we condemn them after we have taken our profit (Ezek. and he doesnt commit to funerals and all flowers had to comply with their flower policy. Hopefully they will all burn themselves out by being crazy busy like Platt and go away! The pastor did show for the funeral, but came with an understudy (seminary student?). I will be very interested to see how long this lasts. So if it is the means then why are people upset when Platt says that people need to get with it regarding the means? And of course to get it embodied, which you can only do with individuals, not in the abstract.-Eugene H. Peterson link. They said its a new testament model so it is. We have greatly improved our administration (add ministry) for which I am thankful. Who God is, and what He has done in Christ on our behalf takes precedence. than I do . If one then takes this approach and looks at a goodly number of other things in scripture which Christians argue about one finds a lot more leeway in scripture than apparently some folks want to tolerate in todays church culture and practice. However, I do think it represents something about care and compassion of the sheep and knowing them by name. Thanks, very insightful from your experience with boots on the ground. Having grown up in a mainline Protestant denomination, this experience was fabulous. If one is to fulfill the requirements of love, then it is not enough that God loves us but we must also love God, the first and greatest commandment. David Platt unfortunately comes across as manipulating and disingenuous. Many dont. If we go on missions, it is for the salvation of the world and then that those who are saved may obey the great commandments love for God and love for neighbour. As far as being a teacher to the world, I hope the world reads scripture, knows Jesus, and does not believe everything that comes from Davids mouth or writings. Have you considered that its because most megachurch pastors care very little about Scripture, as thats just not the point? I briefly attended McLean Bible Church, pastored by Lon Solomon, back in the mid-1980s. And that was his only job then. // God is interested in and respects what we think, our initiative, our ideas, our plans, our decisions A lot of replies sound speculative . Or is FIEC the T4G/TGC/9Marks beachhead in the kingdom? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=llNnlE6Hbuc. No created thing compares to knowing Him. In other words, I am thinking that different people have different needs, and some folks cannot deal with chaos and want rules and procedures and organization and having somebody in charge. IMHO Peter was doing evangelism, like Billy Graham, for example, and not pastoring. stroke. Of course, you can do some evangelism at the church site. I think youve summed it up pretty well. I can see how this could be the cast for new converts, in the same way that newborns depend on the pre-digested proteins of milk. I can remember on pastor in my lifetime that handled the role fairly well, but Ive known others who truly were pastors. He also will continue to spend 35% of his weekends traveling domestically and internationally carrying out IMB responsibilities and preaching in Southern Baptist churches, in addition to his extensive travel during the week. Im not sure what title is appropriate for the job hell do there (Lecturer? 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